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  1. 15 points
    This. I know i have no voice here plus i lack the knowledge to help Frederick, but one thing i know: the way team points team rankings will be in rev.8 more people will abandon this ship. Please take this words that i'm writing in consideration before moving to rev.8. @richba5tard Frederick i can imagine how busy your life is, i have "only" two small kids here to spend time and money + job + wife attention + second graduation + family, not easy i know, but even with all this i'm able to find some time to do my only hobby: overclock, from 386sx to z270, i love this, and i really want to keep doing it here with Hwbot.
  2. 13 points
    Within tradition the ROG overclocking series continues with Z390 as well . You can download latest tools here : OC PACK MAXIMUS XI GENE latest bios : 0057 0044 0043 ( improves oc capability of short-traced dimms such as G.Skill RGB or Galax based A2-pcb) USB Flashback: Few notes: 1. LN2 wise the benching experience with additional voltages is quite same, RSVD switch works most of time for solving CBB issues, some cpu's can scale with up to 1.85V PLL Termination . Typically new cpu's scale up to 1.8V for multi-thread and 1.95+ for single-threaded benchmarks. 2. No more slow-boot with Samsung B-die sticks and tight timings 3. Cofee Lake refresh has a little bit different IMC compared to regular Cofee Lake, meaning you might need to sort your oc-dimms again and also some dimm's are simply not liked by the new IMC. A value of 0.95 vttdram helped few kits in my case but ymmv. 4. Make sure you use a strong PSU otherwise you might run into issue and experience shutdown in heavy-load benchmarks. While using heater and hard benchmarks it is best to use heatspreader on VRM. 5.For Windows 7 use the Asmedia USB ports that are located above the HDMI . You need to install driver which you can find here: Asmedia USB Driver 6.The Maximus XI series use a new way of measuring vcore which is more accurate. elmor explained it here: https://www.overclock.net/forum/27686004-post2664.html?fbclid=IwAR28uwLxzdE6mG7Hya0w17pTYFoPwYTWNpuZw7-9_KJMnHNI3wgR-kN5qpc
  3. 13 points
    Hey, I don't really have preference and expertise on how to divide leagues, just wanted to add some more point about the 'Elite / sponsored' status. I do get some samples sometime, so I moved my account to elite because I consider myself slightly more fortunate than others who tried hard with their fully-hard-earned hardwares. (Honestly speaking I personally don't think I deserve the elite status if we were talking about knowledge and skills alone, I'm no top-10-world-ranked bencher material, just an average motherboard and RAM reviewer who got lucky in competitions a lot, and like to know more about things + share if it was useful) How much samples? I got around 1 motherboard per gen, usually for testing before a certain platform's launch date. Most of these motherboard also not always a 'retail pack', because those were prepped for extreme benching, sometime even these were an ES board with a couple workaround here and there so can't really sell it. RAM also around 1 kit per gen/platform (or if there wasn't anything new, then around 2 kits per year). GPU not so much - one or two per 3-4 year maybe, I don't bench 3D much anyway as my main job is CPU/MB/RAM coverage. If the motherboard don't come with CPU then I need to buy retail CPU for it, (if provided it's most likely ES, random quality, sometimes good, sometimes average), and GPU if I need to buy to bench 3D. Most of the time I still buy CPU/MB/RAM on my own though, as most big competitions need to buy retail hardwares for it, and bin CPU if needed (for gskill ocwc this year I binned 8x 8600K) As far as expenses go, these 'free' samples did help (not exactly 'free; though as I need to work providing feedback and workaround, sometimes providing testing documentation if necessary to the MB vendors), but not as much to make profit with it edit: Forgot to vote, I'm OK with 3: 1) Elite/Pro/Sponsored 2) All Others not limited by cooling (as we cannot be completely certain/validate cooling method) 3) Rookie (with time constraint - not sure how long though, should be 6 month or 1 year maybe?)
  4. 13 points
    Sorry you have reached your allowed amount of comments for this month. Please cool down until dec 1st 2018, or become a pro member(tm) for just 0.99$ and post now!
  5. 11 points
    Want to simplify code and decrease server load, and at the same time decrease load on your poor already short staff? 2 Leagues Pro/Sponsored Everybody else Stop with the silly leagues by cooling method in which temperature can't be proven anyway. Want to move up the ranks? Move up your game. It doesn't get any simpler than that.
  6. 10 points
    As hwbot is always lacking in funds and staff, I think it would be a great idea if hwbot introduced micro transactions in an EA style where we can buy a few different items with real money. This would help support the platform financially and I think as gamers love them so much overclockers would too. My suggestions are 1) buying points in different leagues (hw masters points are cheaper than actually league points) 2) buying into the next league. Say I'm a novice who has never used Ln2 but I want the cool elite status, I could just pay to more up, say a set amount per league moved up, with elite being highest price and enthusiast being the cheapest. 3) buying a a submission to be kept in the database even if it slightly broke the rules, but isn't and obvious cheap. Think of it like a fine for accidentally cover the cinebench render window or using windows 10 on sandybridge. 4) early access to a competition so you can put your scores in before anyone else to make sure the right wallpaper is up etc. Gamers love beta and alpha testing so overclockers will do as well. 5) buying extra hours at the end of a competition so you can ensure yours is the last sandbag and nobody can sneakily beat you right at the last second. 6) buying a point boost in a competition to add 100 points to your score so you can just beat out that pesky guy who spent the extra time tweaking his ram!!! Such an annoyance these kids who spend their whole week tweaking ram cos they don't have anything better to do I think with the formula laid out above hwbot will be rolling in it in no time. Hwbot can start up the world tour 2.0 with mega prizes like rolls Royce, rolex watches, holidays, 3175x Xeons. Also they could get faster servers, have a full time dev team working on making the database work more effectively and full time paid mods driving lambos to moderate competition submissions. Would also like to hear any other suggestions people have that we could put micro transactions on! #makehwbotgreatagain
  7. 9 points
    I guess If we simplify the leagues we need points for all subs and no cut-offs...
  8. 8 points
    Points system should be the highest score gets the most points and go down from there regardless of weather you are sponsored or not or what league you are in. As for the people that want to save the Apprentice league its a nothing rubbish league get rid of it. When I was enthusiast I was 10th then I started using Dice and went into Extreme and I was happy then they made the Apprentice league and I was No.1 did I feel good about it NO its a nothing in between league it just gives people that aint near the top a way of feeling good about themselves. Frederick is trying to streamline the place making it fast and easy for him to maintain and everyone wants to save this and that and were talking about 2 point systems Jesus he cant win.
  9. 8 points
    I voted for 2 leagues , but i would prefer a 3 league solution , being as : 1 - Rookies/Novice (aircooled - watercooled setups only) 6 months time frame 2 - Amateurs/Hobbyists (everything goes) 3 - Elite/Pros/Sponsored
  10. 8 points
    My FRIEND, you said it ALL. THANK YOU. THAT IS THE SPIRIT. AAA+++
  11. 7 points
    No, because he is no longer actively benching for his team. That doesn't take away from a legendary score at all. It's just his team will not be able to profit from it forever due to not benching any more. Can't help your team if you don't bench.
  12. 7 points
    Merge the Enthusiast League with the Apprentice League. That takes care of the "prove your cooling" issue. Merge the Novice League with the Rookie League. Reclassify Extreme and Elite as "Elite - not sponsored" and "Elite - sponsored". My two cents.
  13. 7 points
    stop the pestering questions you give just about every one on the for sale thread chris, youre all over anything and everything, if youre not gunna buy then forget it
  14. 7 points
    Yeah, sponsored / non sponsored / rookie seems like a very good solution. Newcomers are not overwhelmed, no burden of proof on cooling.
  15. 7 points
    No matter how I moderate I will be annoying somebody. Galax imposed these limitations on driver versions and I got the heads up to adhere to them. If everybody had some scores up like eg a week ago we could have spotted this and rectify it by warning the user... It's a dirty job and I have to do it... Sorry lads. I'm on it within an hour. Still have to drive back
  16. 7 points
  17. 7 points
    The intent is to provide overclockers with a sense of pride and accomplishment for unlocking different points. As for cost, we selected initial values based upon data from the Revision 7 Open Beta and other adjustments made to milestone rewards before launch. Among other things, we're looking at average per-player points earn rates on a daily basis, and we'll be making constant adjustments to ensure that players have challenges that are compelling, rewarding, and of course attainable via overclocking. We appreciate the candid feedback, and the passion the community has put forth around the current topics here on HWBOT, our forums and across numerous social media outlets. Our team will continue to make changes and monitor community feedback and update everyone as soon and as often as we can.
  18. 7 points
    I'm fully against any approach per year for members/teams/..., this makes about half of the members/ teams loose massive points, which makes motivation to continue to bench non existing... Only thing the bot will reflect who is still actively benching (probably the latest and greatest hardware) not about what they have ever achieved. Makes climbing the ladder even easier than it is now... Especially for the hardware masters, well just skip the category and loose it all..
  19. 6 points
    x265 is the ultimate benchmark. What's a gold or WR worth to you? You're in total control of your own destiny.
  20. 6 points
    All of them , except XTU , because it's Intel only and it's buggy. A couple of remarks to consider and listen to other members opinion. *Cinebench R11.5 is the only modern cinebench that allows 32bit systems to compete , should we give them a chance for globals ??? *Should we define a cpu core cut off ,(lets say up to 32cores) to get rid of those server systems from rankings ???
  21. 6 points
    We are not talking about removing it from the ranking, nor from stripping points from the old submissions. What is under discussion is whether inactive members should receive member points / have an impact on team and country ranking.
  22. 6 points
    Prisoners don't get to run the prison. It leads to unruled chaos. Thank god for moderation.
  23. 6 points
  24. 6 points
    Folks, Whatever is decided is neutral for me. I bench for FUN. I do not care for rankings and I do not mind being first or last. Recognition, honors, medals on the web ??? Illusions. Seek all these in real life. That I can understand. Just one thing to be clear, for those believing that being a sponsored member is all joy and money and prizes. NOONE can become F1 driver without basting his ass from the age of 6-7 years in go-carts and then climbing the ladder. I have quite a few TOP DOG very good friends here and I can tell you for sure that their obligations against sponsors are HUGE.
  25. 6 points
    I wonder what the numbers would look like if you could filter out all of the inactive members. You do realize everyone who registers to hwbot gets put in enthusiast league after 1 year, even if they only made 1 submission and never returned. Also just so you guys know, getting some vendor support doesn't suddenly make this hobby free
  26. 6 points
    As for HW points, I thought this site was primarily a HW database. HW points should be the mainstay of any formula that you come up with. Everything else is just fluff.
  27. 6 points
    My latest 24 hours regarding HWBOT. 1) Over 1000 e-mail messages, FB messages, phone calls and SMS messages. Common parameter in all - Frustration, anxiety, elevated stress levels. 2) Common questions - sell and get out ? --- Wait and see ? ---- Sell old HW and an arm and a leg and buy modern expensive HW ? Turbulence, confusion. Agreed, most people do not have the necessary self-discipline and life experience to see a hurricane hitting their head, while an hour ago all was calm. But, for a playground ? This is not family, business or whatever else, where a sudden event can bring life upside down. This is supposed to be a hobby. A hobby can be done at home alone, or thru broader channels ( Team Work ). UTMOST CONSIDERATION MUST BE EXHIBITED BEFORE REACHING FINAL DECISIONS. Shame that after so many revisions, a stable platform can't be found. My best wishes for a viable solution. Otherwise I predict a real avalanche wiping whatever is left
  28. 6 points
    Pretty much my thoughts on it. I've skimmed through a lot of things, but wow... Having rankings mostly be focused on what's been done the past year? What happens to growth? What happens to those who actually work on improving, and most importantly, those who tend to focus on older gear because they can't afford to risk (let alone BUY!) the higher end newer gear? Dropping 211 ranks in my country (20th to 231st, ouch) and going from the top 8% (118th out of 1505 is 7.84%) to the bottom third in my league (149th out of 219) just because I've been focused on real life instead of benching could very well coax people who had been active previously to just not return. Sure, some might argue that trying to go after someone's score from ten years ago is a difficult thing, but I say eh, work harder on it - it's what I've done, and I've repeatedly used older scores from more knowledgeable overclockers as a target to push towards... And eventually beat (yes, I'm still elated I beat ONE of Christian Ney's scores - it took over two years to surpass, of course I'm bloody well happy about it!!! Still working on beating one of ftw's scores...) And, like others have mentioned, the new method puts those who tend to rely on hardware points for their standings (due to personal preferences, financial viability of older platforms, or both) are automatically at a disadvantage when someone can get upwards of three times the points through Global/Benchmark points.... AND really does reinforce the whole pay to play aspect of it all, as the only real way to even remotely compete points-wise (or have a chance in going up the rankings) would be to go all-in on liquid nitrogen (alongside all of that expensive brand new gear!), which for a lot of people, is just way too expensive. No, I'm not calling LN2 pay to win, I'm referring to the fact that the newest hardware is bloody expensive, but if you happen to have the bank to get it, you can rather easily jump up the rankings for quite some time with access to such. I'm all for having the workload on the backend be easier, but at the same time, there's a reason why the current system wound up being the chosen compromise in the first place - those who focus on older hardware (and therefore having HUGE walls to climb just to even get remotely decent scores, especially with previously rather popular gear) were able to at least see some sort of reasonable reward for their work (and not just Hardware Masters rankings), those who focused on the competitive side of things were also able to make a good firm push into the higher rankings (I made it as high as 363rd worldwide last year thanks to competition points! Or was it 327th. Either way, still something I never would have even been able to remotely contemplate before rev7, and it helped give me additional motivation to push harder to see just what could be done), and those who had the higher up placements in benches were also rewarded. Is any system perfect? Nope, but I will say this - while going up in the worldwide ranks in nice and all, I'd rather not be going up a few hundred rankings globally just because others weren't able to bench as often (current info shows me going from 1442 to 1201 worldwide JUST BECAUSE OTHERS WERE INACTIVE - that same info that would penalize me 211 spots in country rankings because rl's been a massive pain this past year). Tying competition points to a timer is one thing (otherwise those who've been competing for years would have a HUGE advantage - this was a point brought up back when rev7 was being worked on!), but tying the entire league and overall rankings to such? Blatantly stupid, and a giant middle finger to those older members who may have wound up having real life take priority, and benching somewhat of a back seat for a while. Hell, it's two giant middle fingers to the community in general...
  29. 6 points
    All this discussed here was meant to be adressed at rev7, you can also scale point distribution there by changing multiplier for benchmarks if you see the balance is not good, the season ranking problem was solved by comp points going down after 12 months and being replaced by new ones because the re-submission Silver mentions was adressed there and said to be non-solvable problem if hwresults are seasonal base and so on. Fact is that the database point distribution doesn´t work technically, that rankings don´t work and that the system, to give points in relation to top spot scared away lots of people on older hardware 3ds who dont bench new gen cpus on ln2. Again we sit here, after it took 18 months to implement rev7 from start to first release, and discuss about a new revision without changing the mistakes we have and the toxic stuff that kills oc. I hope to read some new ideas next days just to get some hope, but you will not hear nay proposals by me anymore, it is simply not amusing to read same stuff I read 5 years ago and that plans are made which include the same mistakes made as on former revs because again the wheel will be re-invented... I was always optimistic about hwbot, but things change
  30. 6 points
    I obviously can't get rev 7 fully working due, do I? Despite hundreds of automated tests, a test environment with a full production database copy, we are not able to reproduce the issues with rev7. Rankings just get fucked up on production and nobody seems to know why or how. If I can't reproduce it, and i've got 685.000 lines of 14 year old code to maintain, well guess what, I can't get it bug free. Even worse, all my spare time is spent on finding issues with the points and dozens of different rankings, I can spent time on improving other stuff. One major reason for rev7 was to free up calculation power, but in the end I had to write a tool which checks for broken rankings and repairs them, causing high load... I need it easier to maintain, otherwise HWBOT will never improve quality wise.
  31. 6 points
    Yes you start at zero, but however you will still be spanked by them guys that use the biggest and latest hardware... its not a bad idea but it needs categories to make a difference.... otherwise it will be the guy with the most money still on top...
  32. 6 points
    Because combining the scores and making it top 30 subs does make hw points essentially irrelevant. A gold in a hard fought category like gtx 580 3dmark06 53points is worth the same as a 75th place xtu run in the new points system.
  33. 6 points
    Only had a chance to skim through the thread. Whilst I don't mind the idea of career vs 'current' ranking, but why have comp points in both? Comp points in current and no comp points in career makes more sense to me as comps are much more optional in my mind. As others have said, but combining points (top 30 global+hw) you naturally bias it towards those with higher end hw, that was the best thing about the seperate hw and global points adding to your total. Edit: Also while I don't really pay attention to team rankings, getting rid of the 'power points' (which was basically just the highest score with certain hw on a team counts?) would massively change the rankings, once again to teams with more high end hw.
  34. 6 points
    Is there anyway to keep hardware points as a contributing factor to the rankings? Current proposal is hardware points only count to hardware masters league correct?
  35. 5 points
    I would have dumped XTU a long time ago.
  36. 5 points
  37. 5 points
    We need more than two options. Sometimes the right answer lies in between apathy and radical change...
  38. 5 points
    You are feeling like me old man, perhaps we have been around too long Hardwork indeed and I was thinking the same as you. But in the end points dont even matter, companies have their go to guys for events and samples and they get them until they step down and let others in. Im feeling less greedy as I get older so im ready to let some other guys have a chance and this will happen with comp points only being annual. If noob comes out of the wood work and is hell bent on going for #1 in the world, they would have to wait 5-6 years just to catch up to our competition points They arent starting at 0 they are starting at -1000 If we die without new blood lets not kill them as soon as they choose their password. That being said I dont like it being called career then. Maybe like 2018 league 2019 league etc? Career would mean more like overall imo and Im most proud of my competition points in my career.
  39. 5 points
    Thanks to Nick Splave and Mllrkllr88 for the development of this for the benefit of the community.
  40. 5 points
    UAT will be down for half an hour. I'm restoring a production copy of the db and team power points. - edit restore failed. I'll try it again tomorrow morning. - edit restore ok - first post edited to reflect rev8 state on uat
  41. 5 points
    TPP was loved the second it was implemented. You should consider maintaining it. It's a good deal for teams of people. Any how Fredric, Have a good Thanksgiving and Holiday season. I haven't much more to voice. Hoping this new Rev works for everyone which will be impossible. But at least you're trying and put this out there for people to try and understand. Me, I'll be back at W9 and concentrating on our goodness at the home site. Will be looking to build a sA system for the at home comp now that I got my IDE drive is wiped (the only one I have left in good working order) clean and see if I can't get a decent percentage OC and just have a blast doing it. Again all are invited. One thing I did miss years ago.... I was able to upload my CPU de-lid pictures for that particular CPU avatar. Wish I could do that again lol. Here's an example. http://hwbot.org/hardware/processor/phenom_ii_x4_965_be/ Yea... the good old days.
  42. 5 points
    It is static because very few put the time in. Can't have a team or person thats active for more than 10 years tossed to the side by little Jonny and his gaming rig that throws a half a dozen subs in and disappears forever. You don't need to reward new members like that. Noobs have to put their time in to see themselves rise the ladder. That's how it works in every aspect of life...........unless you're a millennial. They have the competitions for instant gratification if thats what they desire.
  43. 5 points
    This highlights an issue that has been around forever with hwbot, do you rewards width or height so to speak. The hw masters ranking in theory should cover the width, those members who bench a wide range of hw, rather than focusing in on a smaller popular selection. For some, benching a huge range of hw is the more impressive, for others getting 5 top scores >>>>> 1000s of subs, so in theory you should have best of both worlds with normal and hw master rankings. Also team shouldn't be seasonal, if anything the teamcup naturally acts as a seasonal team ranking. For active benchers, season and career shouldn't be that different surely? Since they'll bench new stuff for globals, and also rebench older stuff possibly with new hw in combination (new cpus with older gpus) in order to improve their hw subs. Keeping globals in the career is a nice balance to me, as it rewards active benchers, but doesn't mean you completely lose out if you're no longer active, but you will slowly slip down the rankings. Also still think comp points have no place in the career ranking, thought we were heading towards older hwbot, aren't comp points a new thing? (at least I don't remember them being around when I joined), competition points are naturally suited to a seasonal ranking as they lose points after a year anyway. Edit: Career: Top 20 global + Top 40 HW Seasonal: Top 30 subs + Top 10 Comp (all during that 'season') Numbers can be adjusted obviously, but to me this is a nice balance.
  44. 5 points
    Ran a 5Ghz just once, so would need to test few more things to compare
  45. 5 points
    Why cant team points go off the members all time points like it always has and not be a yearly thing. Personal league points can go on a yearly basis I have no problem with that. I dont really care about my personal points in the slightest but a lot of my team grind out team points on old hardware and spend a lot of time and effort doing it they only care about the teams position not there own and we are going to be obliterated if it changes to a yearly thing because most members dont have the money to buy all new shiny year after year.
  46. 5 points
    Who wants to buy some gear? This is bullshit.
  47. 5 points
    Most valuable pieces of hw: 5) Rampage 3 Black / Corsair Gtx2 4) Asus Ares / Mars / 780 Ti Lightning 3) Golden 8700K 2) Golden 9900K 1) Allen's USB
  48. 5 points
    This one ended up in the Night Raid stage somehow https://hwbot.org/submission/3985742 And same user for 3DMark 2001 https://hwbot.org/submission/3985710 And one more time for 3DMark05 https://hwbot.org/submission/3985722 And yet again for GPUPI https://hwbot.org/submission/3985670
  49. 5 points
    if you go per year approach it will reflect who's actively benching, and that's basicly it... It is no longer about who's being skilled, just the same as it is now, bench the latest and greatest and get top ranking per member/team and Hardware all for the same price... I don't see the point in it... It will kill the Bot once and for all, especially if the Hardware Masters gets the same treatment... Might be interesting from a server load perspective but we just need to roll back to a simple algorythm: where the top score is 50 points and roll down, do a cut off at 50% to reduce server load...
  50. 4 points
    It was elite, extreme and enthusiast originally. Apprentice, rookie and novice were added in later. There are advantages and disadvantages to both systems. 2 leagues Pro's Easier to manage Does not create arguments about who uses what cooling. Has good incentives to move to extreme cooling. Con's People will still argue what is classed as sponsored vs not, so this needs to be very clearly defined. Noobs may be overwhelmed at first with could put them off. 6 league Pro Noobs don't have to compete with extreme or people who have been on for years People who don't have access to extreme cooling can compete in a league with similar levels of cooling. Cons The is no incentive to go up a league, some people will get to the top of enthusiast or apprentice and not want to use better cooling because in there mind they are top and they would go down. Its like being king of the slums vs being the average Joe in the business area. It is also harder to explain and manage. Creates issues of proof of cooling etc. I personally think 3 will be best. Basically 2 league system with a rookie league that they are in for 6 months then automatically move out of. This solves the problem of the noobs feeling like the have been thrown in the deep end and there is just a set time period to move leagues, so nobody can argue about it and they is no questions of proving when someone joined as its in the database and run automatically.
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